Dear God,
I think congratulations are in order. Not only did you create the universe in a mere week, you also created a system of social control, which offers the only satisfying solution to the one thing that everybody fears; death. As nothing is more depressing than thinking of death without heaven. I dread that thought of becoming a rotting corpse, lying 6 feet under in the earth, being consumed by maggots, worms and parasites. It is just a very undignified way to go. Angels and harps is far more appealing…well, except for the white. I donʼt think I could stand the lack of colour. If you promise I could spruce up the place a touch, perhaps with some greens or blues, Iʼll be there.
Truth is, I am a little confused on a few issues, and would like a moment of your time to answer some of my burning questions.
First, why do you need to be worshipped? I could understand an occasional bout of thanks of your magnificence, but daily recognition of your greatness seems a little excessive. As if you are some kind of ego driven megalomaniac, in need of constant love and affection. If we donʼt pray regularly, might you throw youʼre metaphorical dummy out of the metaphorical pram? Well, donʼt be such a baby, perhaps you need some biblical discipline to help grow a backbone. Surely if we are good people, doing great things, youʼll be happy.
Second, was the enlightenment annoying? I bet you weren’t expecting science to come along and explain how things work. Religion relies on the premise of being to explain answers to questions which us mere mortals struggle to solve. Despite that, it baffles me how you convinced seemingly intelligent and educated individuals, to cling onto their supernatural beliefs. A job well done.
Third, whats the problem with women and homosexuals? If you created everyone, it would make sense if you just accepted people for who they are, rather than treating some like second class citizens. It feels like youʼre a bitter parent, disappointed with your underachieving, short and chubby children. The mistakes which you put down to a stupid drunken night, when you were too porked up on alcohol to manage to strap on a condom. Sounds like stubbornness; get over it.
I understand Judaism, along with other faiths, is a cultural phenomenon, with its origins based on an ancient culture with ancient traditions. Belief in you, is a part of the culture of Judaism; making us all Cultural Jews, believers and non-believers. Despite all of your infantile requests, and archaic beliefs, I respect peoplesʼ right to follow the herd. It doesnʼt even bother me that you insist people build their lives around your belief system. However nothing riles me more, when a politician explains their actions by telling their voters, “God told me to.” George Bush comes to mind, among other examples. God just do me one favour, keep out of politics.
One final question. If insane politicians manage to lead us all into an apocalyptic nuclear war, wiping out every last morsel on earth. With nobody left to believe in you, would you still exist? Just some food for thought.
Awaiting your response. A proud non-believer,
David Kay
Dave,
1. Your questions are good questions. If asked genuinely, instead of in a snarky, sarcastic way, they are pretty much the same questions which intelligent religious people ask, and there are answers for all of them (which you may or may not find satisfying, but you will never know if you don’t engage the questions honestly). I would be happy to discuss my perspective on those issues.
2. There is no contradiction between Jewish piety and explaining phenomena with science (I can’t speak for Christianity). You will find many accomplished scientists with deeply held, Bible-based, religious beliefs.
3. I take offense at the line, “I respect peoplesʼ right to follow the herd.” Do you think you are such an individual? You think you came up with your morality and beliefs all on your own, or deduced them rationally? BS! You are choosing to follow one herd, and annoyed that others choose to follow another that you don’t agree with. You’re attacking the character of those who disagree with you ad-homonym, instead of addressing the actual points of disagreement. You’re a universalist-particularist who can only tolerate other universalists. At least I can make a claim to having made a choice to ‘jump herds’ based on my own thoughts and beliefs. Can you make the same claim? (Maybe you can. I don’t know you that well.) Or are you living in the same belief system as you were raised, socialized and went to college? How seriously have you ever questioned your own values? Yet I am the one who follows the herd? It seems to me that the herd in the world you and I grew up in is a secular-humanist one, and your blog is perfectly representative of it’s belief system.
By: Eitan Levy on November 20, 2009
at 10:09 am
Good for you Dave!! Wow! Exactly what I’m going through right now. I think in response to Eitan, the great thing (and difficult thing) about reasoned opinions is that we must constantly question our own values, and figure out if they still work based on the evidence that exists NOW. Unlike religious opinions which, if questioned, simply require that you ask a Rabbi/Imam/Priest, who will come up with a response based on thousands of years of lies and falsehoods (maybe well meaning, but still nonsense). I challenge you to ‘jump the herd’ and figure out some opinions of your own, not based in superstition and ridiculous comments such as “There is no contradiction between Jewish piety and explaining phenomena with science” Hello!!!
I have other questions for God. Issues that I am struggling with…
Does it bother you when your adherents kill each other (and themselves) in your name for such a view of the world which is based on falsehood? Surely as an all-knowing God you know what the ultimate truth is, yet let your creations go about making up their own truth as they go along… Maybe you prefer science as it lets people actually figure things out about your world without having to invent a silly story to explain how the Zebra got its stripes…
Does it bother you that Jews, so obsessed by their own uniqueness and special character, that they demand the right to an area of the world, that they themselves allocated for themselves, in a book which they wrote, for themselves? Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when you put it that way…
Lastly, if indeed you created everything, you surely created love also. WHAT ABOUT HOMOSEXUALS??? There is not an orthodox religion in this world that accepts LGBT people, instead claiming they (I should say ‘we’) are against the natural order. Humans have had to create so-called ‘liberal’ religion in order to fit to the scientifically proven fact that Homosexuality is normal, part of the evolutionary process and categorically NOT against the natural order. Rather beautifully, it is part of it… And in that sense, Eitan, there is every contradiction between Jewish piety and science. That is BS!
Discuss…
By: neil brodie on November 20, 2009
at 1:44 pm
Neil: OK, I’m not going to respond to every point in that diatribe, just one or two.
As to the issue of homosexuality contradicting Torah, I believe you are working on the false assumption that Natural=Good. I don’t care that much if something is natural or artificial (beyond my own aesthetic preferences). I’m not even sure where to draw a line between the two. I care if something is good or not. Hashem made people with inclinations to do lots of things which he then forbade in the Torah: e.g. eating pork. Homosexuality is a particularly difficult urge to overcome, and I do not condemn any individual for failing to live up to Hashem’s demands on that particular issue, but they are still committing a transgression every time they engage in homosexual sex (‘being’ a homosexual is not a transgression). The idea of Judaism is for us to overcome certain parts of our ‘nature,’ hence circumcision as a symbol of the covenant. We are explicitly going against ‘nature’ in favor of ‘holyness,’ by symbolically binding one of our most powerful, potentially destructive, urges to the will of G-d, to sanctify it. I don’t judge your decision, as someone struggling with this, to turn your back on G-d and his Torah. I have no idea what I would do in your situation. But I nonetheless believe you are wrong to do so.
By: Eitan Levy on November 20, 2009
at 2:24 pm
God, that was so helpful! So, by ‘good’ you mean something written by bronze age men! I get you! So the world hasn’t moved on at all since then…
Some questions I found on the net for you:
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Syrians, but not to Jordanians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Jordanians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that, even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there “degrees” of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?
And yes I know, the Rabbis make it really difficult for anyone to get the death penalty. It seems they were able to find some loopholes to get rid of things they didn’t like back in the 5th Century, based on the changing morality of the time (noone suggest stoning a rebellious child anymore). 1500 years later, I suggest we have moved on even more considerably.
AND, how dare you compare eating pork to being gay! Firstly eating of pork is not an urge anyone has other than a liking they may have for the meat. Secondly, how dare you compare my desire (and I should add human right) for love and companionship with that of someone who fancies a bit of bacon for breakfast. The two are NOT comparable and shame on you for suggesting so.
But you are also contradicting yourself. On the one hand you say that science and religion are compatible and not mutually exclusive, and then on the other hand you ignore scientific fact, by suggesting there is something immoral about me sharing my life and love with my fiancé!
Of course you don’t know what to do with the problem of Judaism and homosexuality because you aren’t gay. It’s like a man saying he doesn’t know what to do about discrimination against women in religion because it’s not his issue as he’s a man. Of course we find a way round these things – ‘women are holier than men therefore don’t require the same laws’ Prove it! (In any case, a prime example of how religion alters itself to changes in the prevailing public morality – that idea would have been irrelevant to people 100 years ago as woman were not considered equals in any human sense, so why in a religious sense?)
Prove any of it, and I’ll admit I am wrong. But I know that you cannot, as religion requires belief in unprovable things.
By: neil brodie on November 20, 2009
at 3:19 pm
Neil: I would be happy to engage in a real discussion on any one of those issues you bring up. However, I am not interested in engaging lengthy polemics, aimed at an audience who isn’t really listening, which seems to be the most we could hope to accomplish (in both directions) here.
I would like to address this statement. You wrote: “But you are also contradicting yourself. On the one hand you say that science and religion are compatible and not mutually exclusive, and then on the other hand you ignore scientific fact, by suggesting there is something immoral about me sharing my life and love with my fiancé!”
I am not contradicting myself. Science has no moral value, positive or negative. Proving that something occurs naturally does not confer moral legitimacy upon it. Murder is natural. Rape is natural. Stealing is natural. So is giving to those you love, caring for and about children, etc. Natural, scientifically provable human traits can be good or bad. I believe there are good arguments to be made (outside a Bible based moral framework) for why homosexuality is not bad (though I disagree with those arguments). However, to just keep repeating this mantra that it is natural and therefore good is nonsense.
As to your general issue of proof, I challenge you to prove why murder is wrong. As a student of philosophy who has spent significant time exploring issues of morality, I believe you will find it surprisingly difficult. It’s easy to make an ARGUMENT that murder is wrong, but, I believe, impossible to prove. Good luck. When you can ‘prove’ your moral code, I might consider taking your challenge to ‘prove’ mine.
By: Eitan Levy on November 21, 2009
at 7:56 pm
Ok, so agreed 100% that you cannot infer an ‘ought’ from an ‘is’. But to follow bronze age laws, that struggle to find relevance in today’s modern era is frankly absurd. If you think that the way to find morality is from a made-up set of rules, then go for it. But what makes your rules better (or worse) than anyone else’s made up rules? You happen to be Jewish (I would presume) because you were born to a Jewish family. Had you been born in Indonesia, you would most likely be a Muslim and believe that your set of man-made rules are the correct ones and others false.
I also want to add that I enjoy good debate and polemic is precisely what we are after here.
First of all, in what way is murder and rape natural? I think that since these things damage our communities and those around us, and therefore are completely unnatural. We are built as social beings, and live and develop together with others. Damaging our relationships with others (in the extreme senses of murder and rape) clearly goes against any sense of communal responsibility.
Secondly, prove to me that homosexuality harms anyone? I’m certainly not harmed by it, and neither is my fiance, and neither is anyone else. In fact I gain much pleasure and happiness for being comfortable with who I am, and being able to share that with my family and friends. In fact science (more specifically psychology) does show us the damage that religion can do to people who are told that they are ‘bad’ for being who they are, or are required to deny their make-up and ignore their natural inclinations. You saying that homosexuality is ‘bad’ just shows how backward and immoral you are. I hope that a gay child never has the misfortune of meeting you, so you don’t screw them up forever with your hateful untruths.
By: neil brodie on November 23, 2009
at 12:48 pm
I LOVE Judaism, Men, G-d AND being at home and honest with myself as an openly proud Gay Jew.
Refrain from using over the top, arrogant intellectualism to fuel your vile, homophobic argument.
By: Adam on December 14, 2009
at 4:50 am
Adam:
I LOVE Torah, G-d, and all G-d’s laws, even the ones I have difficulty with, and appreciate the struggle of perfecting myself according to His plan.
Refrain from using emotional, ad-homonym attacks to justify your immoral, homosexual behavior.
By: Eitan Levy on December 14, 2009
at 12:50 pm
I’m afraid Eitan that you just proved to everyone, how disgusting a human being you are.
if Judaism is about being against homosexuality, then it is surely about loving your neighbour as yourself just as much.
Its typical people like you spend their time moaning about what other people get up to and forget to think about the pain they might be causing with their own behaviour…
in the future there’ll be a small cult of people like you claiming to be the ‘real’ Jews and looking down on the rest of us who know what nonsense that is…
By: neil brodie on December 14, 2009
at 9:02 pm
Neil: I was responding in kind, tongue-in-cheek, to the ad-homonym insults from Adam. If you read his post and mine you will notice mine mirrors his almost word for word. I do not believe in ‘turn the other cheek.’ If you insult me, I will insult you back.
In terms of your ’small cult of people like you,’ in the future, I’m not worried. Statistically Orthodoxy is growing dramatically and liberal Judaism is shrinking.
You’re right, Judaism has both of the things you mention, both “Do not lie with a man as with a woman,” and, “Love your neighbor as yourself.” I absolutely love you as a fellow Jew. I also categorically disapprove of certain of your actions. Anyone who would wish to portray Judaism as one without the other, editing out the parts of the Torah that don’t suit them, is perverting Torah. If you don’t want to follow the Torah (that is, Judaism), then don’t. But if you want Jews who DO care about the Torah to approve of your lifestyle decisions, forget it. They may love you, but they cannot approve of something explicitly forbidden in the Torah.
By: Eitan on December 14, 2009
at 9:40 pm